zhiren

if you said your experience is that small chinese inexpensive gifts are not pleasing your friends, i can accept.  it can be two parts:
1. they, those certain americans among your friends, are really something
2. you did not buy things good enough and present them with good explanation.

do you remember what i said?  add some interesting background to the gift you presented and this deal will make the gift a precious one even it is not expensive.

i have been living in the us among rich, non-rich, politicians, businessmen, educators, high, low class people, and i have been using inexpensive chinese presents for them. and my experience is quite different than that of yours. i was a professor and this may make a difference?

OopsWrongPlace

引用:

引用 mimima 在8/27/2004 11:34 AM:发表的
Quote“they hardly have deep relationships with american friends”


Why they hardly have deep relationship with American? It is American issue or chinese issue in general?

Mimima,
It is both. But if I have to choose one, i would say it is mostly caused by Chinese themselves.
When making friends with Americans, language and culture differences are big burdens. But they are not all. Many Russian and Japanese speak worse english than Chinese, but they get along well with Ameicans.
I think the important reason is that Chinese are not self confident. Let me give you an example. when a chinese guy goes into a bar and see a pretty American girl sittling by herself, do you think he will have the gut to flirt, or simply start a talk, with the girl? NO. Most chinese won't.  they are afraid of something they probably even don't know themselves.  But the reality is that if the guy offer a drink and starts the talk, the girl may very well accept it.  I know a Chinese student (among the very few) who spoke bad english, but got a beautiful american girlfriend simply because he's sooooooo brave.

If you keep thinking that you are a chinese and different from Americans, most likely you won't be very successful living in US. I saw so many Chinese parents kept reminding their American-born children not to forget their Chinese blood. this is unfortunately a big mistake, i think.  Even though I love chinese culture so much, I told those children to think of themselves as true americans. They have to get rid of the thoughts that they were chinese at the very beginning.  This is purely my own comments. My point is that if you decide to live in a foreign country, you have to sacrify many things you liked so much before, including the culture. Otherwise, you won't be happy

zhiren

"One thing people should be aware is that most Americans, especially those working in China, look so nice and polite that they hardly say any bad words about Chinese culture. Their views are actually quite biased comparing to those living in US and having never been abroad."  quoted from above.

i disagree at your point, sir.  this is a very wrong statment.

i do admit that, after coming to china, i have many culture shocks even i am a chinese.


as you mentioned above that the americans you know care the quality of the gifts.  who does not care the quality of your gifts?  chinese don't?  i stated clearly:  add some interesting background to your gifts and make it very precious.  i bought many cotton scarfs (scarves) with the printing of yun-nan local pictures at 10.00rmb per piece and they were requested even by senators.  i will stop here

ji

good enough, these stories make American life dawn on me, thank you both, so long

zhiren

oops: don't be discouraged by my concerns.  we need your sharing!

OopsWrongPlace

Ji,
I feel sorry if you saw anything here bothering you. When I started this topic of "views from ordinary americans", i had the intention to make the discussions more pleasant. I feel very tired when arguing with others. Of course, we should allow everyone to speak out his/her own mind.
I do share your sort of disappointment. But please don't go away. Let us work together and make the forum more interesting.

Zhiren,
I didn't feel discouraged with your comments. I like people to give their own thoughts. It makes the discussion more interesting if people have different point of view.  Yesterday, I didn't responde to your comments because I got to go back to sleep. Remember there is a time difference between Hangzhou and Los angeles? Also I thought you wanted to stop the discussion on this gift thingy, didn't you?

OopsWrongPlace

引用:

引用 小言 在8/27/2004 09:33 AM:发表的
sometimes it is difficult even for young men and women both in China if they work alone in a place other than their hometown not together with their parents.  because they have no chance to know ea ...

小言,
you are right that people love their hometown so much even sometimes other places provide better quality of life. You particularly mentioned that young people may not feel happy if they are not with their parents. Hehe, while I agree, it is more from a girl's mind, not a young man :)

It is interesting that i thought Americans were more independent when making decisions of their living places, I meant they made choices on their own, not based on their parents.  But later I found it s not necessarily true.

I once interviewed an American young lady from Kansas City, a little above 25, unmarried. She had a Master's degree. She looked very mature, very determined during the interview. She said that she dreamed of being a California girl ( = beach gril :)). But during the interview, she also told us that she hadn't talked to her parents about this interview yet since her parents would get mad if they knew she was leaving them.  Everyone in our company thought she was very qualified and we made her an excellent offer.  But, as you might have guessed, she turned it down. She said as soon as she saw the tears on her parents' faces, she was determined that  she would never leave Kansas.  My old boss, a Caucasian (white american)also quit the job in California and went back to his ( well, he a man, not a girl :)) hometown in the midwest to live with his parents.

There is no place like a home(town).

I love Hangzhou.

zhiren

it is good to read your sharing.  i don't know you are there alone or with your family.  will you get homesick? what do you do for living? share a bit about your work and the daily life of yours as a white colar worker!

OopsWrongPlace

引用:

引用 zhiren 在8/28/2004 01:46 AM:发表的
it is good to read your sharing.  i don't know you are there alone or with your family.  will you get homesick? what do you do for living? share a bit about your work and the daily life of yours as ...

Zhiren,
Am I homesick? You probably should ask if I am homesick every day, every minute. I was lucky that I went back China almost every year, occasionally twice a year, mostly on my own vacations, sometimes on business trips. I didn’t go back to Hangzhou every year though since my parents moved to BJ so that they could live close to my other relatives after I left for US.

I am working for a medical company. I design clinical trials. It is a fun job. Do you know what the area of study which attracts Chinese students most is now? It is not IT, we all know that. It is not engineering.  It is Biostatistics, an important tool in designing clinical trials. You won’t believe how many Chinese are trying to get into this area in the last several years. I feel happy that I got into the medical area several years ago. I am satisfied with the accomplishments I have achieved so far. I am not rich. But I’ve got everything that the average American mid-classes get.  Living like Americans, I work hard. I took vacations and travel around. I watch sports games (you all know Los Angeles has Lakers) and go to see new movies on weekends. I have a lovely Golden retriever. After so many years of studying and working, I finally get into the so-called middle-class. Have you heard how many years the average Chinese will spend in US to get into this class? 10 years. One survey shows that at least one member of the Chinese couple spent about 10 years to make the family living in a stable life.  

Now the question is that, OK, you are making good money, you are living in a life better than most people outside US, so What?! Does it make you feel happy?

zhiren

I have a lovely Golden retriever: you may want to elaborate this more

i have many chinese students in medical field. the best i know so far is a professor at eye clinic in harvard university medical school.  she is struggling whether she should stay there or go out into the business field.  as you may know, the second will make her more money!

PLEASE CONTINUE

[ Last edited by zhiren on 2004-8-28 at 20:59 ]

ji

do GPAs matter in finding a good job? how can get through an interview, I mean that it is successful. after two years, many students should forget what they have learned, no matter they are PhD or Master, it is clear that achievements in academic is not equal to the guarantee in career, why do employers still stress GPA?

OopsWrongPlace

引用:

引用 ji 在8/29/2004 12:11 AM:发表的
do GPAs matter in finding a good job? how can get through an interview, I mean that it is successful. after two years, many students should forget what they have learned, no matter they are PhD or  ...

Do GPAs matter in finding a good job?   NO. I have never heard any hiring managers saying that GPAs are one the criteria when selecting candidates. I think GPA only has its room when people use it to apply colleges and graduate schools. Some applicants put their GPAS in the resume. but it really doesn't help anything.  Also, pretty much all graduate students have high GPAs. In the school I went, there was a policy in graduate program that you would be kicked out of the program as soon as you got more than two C's in your courses. So the professors were generally reluctant to give graduate students the grade C or below, which also meant everyone got at least a B, transferring to GPA, it was at least 3.0 on a 4-point system. So the average people had GPAs from 3 to 3.7; Does it mean anything to an employer when he looks at these GPAS in the resume? Of course, not.  

You are right that, after two years of working, especially in different areas, most people forget what they learnt in schools. But they learnt something new in real world. I always think the 4 - year college programs should focus on the ability trainings, instead of technical knowledge in specific areas. By saying this, I believe US educational systems in both college and high schools are better than the current ones we have in China. US 4-year college students are easily adapted to the real world. For example, how to work in the team, how to deal with conflicts, Chinese new gradutes are just not as good as US students.

Does a level of education (PhDs, Masters, or BS ...) matter when looking for jobs? It does. It is another long discussion. I will share my experience with you later.

zhiren

do you agree the title is not too appropriate to describe your sharing?

you are one from hangzhou and we can emphasize this more.  your story will encourage many peopl ehere in town and in the forum.

" a hometown friend's adventure in the us!"...or something else.

well, it is just my opinion.  but i enjoy very much your english and sharing.  10 years is not short.  are you married now?  you live in which town?  many people live close to san diego because many labs in the field of medicine are there.

OopsWrongPlace

Zhiren, you have a good point. thank you.
it was indeed my original intent to give a unbiaed opinion to any question related to average americans' lives. But, you are right, sometimes, things are just beyond our control.

I agree that we should find a new way to encourage ORDINARY people to come here to join the discussions.  if the changing of the title works, it will be great. But how do I do it?

You are right that San diego area and orange county have many drug and medical device companies. But I am living in the north end of the Los angeles, a small town called Valencia. The company is also at the north end. Even though the company is only 15 miles away from my home, I have to drive at least half an hour one way because of the notorious reputation of LA's traffic.

ji

during an interview,how do recruiters judge an candidate, say a bachelor  without work experience? if AGPA is not important as expected.

OopsWrongPlace

引用:

引用 ji 在8/30/2004 09:33 AM:发表的
during an interview,how do recruiters judge an candidate, say a bachelor  without work experience? if AGPA is not important as expected.

Ji,
GPA only makes sense when you have a group of candidates from the same school. You certainly don’t want to compare GPAs from a good school like UCLA, or even better, to a college no one has ever heard of. My brother graduated from an Ivy League school. His grades only showed Pass (at least 75 out of 100), Strong Pass, and Fail. No GPAs. In my company, people slightly pay attention to what schools you are from, but never GPAs.

There are still lots of ways to select good candidates from people just out of schools. I myself, in particular, like to hire new graduates who are usually better motivated and willing to learn new things.  For many hiring managers including me, motivations and potential for growth are some of the most important factors to consider.  I barely asked very specific technical questions during the interviews. For me, these people are pretty much on the same level if they all get the bachelor’s degrees. Other factors such as ability to work in a team are also important. Working in industries is very different than in institutions which usually only requires the candidates’ research potential.  Of course, there are plenty of people in the companies who focus more on the experience the candidates have. I have talked with so many head-hunters who all believed what I have been doing is absolutely right, but unfortunately, many hiring managers are only interested in “experienced” candidates.

I don’t know how the Chinese companies hire people. I would guess they are doing the similar things as in the rest of the world.  Ji, are you in the process looking for something?

ji

thank you for the information you provided. my brother is seeking a job.

ji

are students from ivy colleges better than students from average schools? there are many student attending average schools because they cannot offer the expensive tuition, however many students born of rich family can go to elite schools such as Bush, a C-class student, a party boy. in China many recruiters are saying, "'sudents from BeiJing university are not better than students from, say Hangzhou university in terms of work ablilities, why do we pay higher salaries for them?" in addition, students from elite colleges are proud.
so why do recruiters still prefer students from  colleges with good reputation ?

OopsWrongPlace

Ji,
I believe that in China, students from Peking Univ. and Tsinghua Univ. are better than the average others, at least academically.  Overall, students from Ivy League schools are better than others in US in every aspect.  In US, the top schools such as those in Ivy League choose new students based on the overall ability including both academic skills and many others such as social activities and music/athletic talents. I have a neighbor child who was outstanding in academia (ranked top 2 in school), but later was rejected by MIT (MIT is not in Ivy League) since, according to MIT, he didn’t show strength in either music or athletic area.  So, you can see there is a big difference in students’ real qualities between US and China. Everyone knows that the only important criteria for a Chinese to go to college is his/her scores from national college entrance exam that doesn’t reflect the students’ other abilities, which are often more important for a person to be successful in the future.

I agree with you that many students from the very top Chinese universities such as PKU may not be the ideal candidates for a company to hire because of various reasons. For example, these students may have too high expectations when stating their new work.
I think it is good if you can go to a top school. But it is not all about the story. Whether a person can be successful or not in the future depends on how much effort he makes after school and his other abilities such as language, social, and management skills.

I didn’t get a chance to go to one of the top universities in China, nor to an Ivy League school in US. In my company, many Chinese employees were from Tsinghua and Peking Universities. All the people working for me went to “better” universities than I did. But I got a better position than they did. Therefore, it really doesn’t matter where you were from. It does where you are now.

zhiren

good sharing worths supporting.

zhiren

we will honor this kind of sharing.  hope many more will be benefited.

OopsWrongPlace

Zhiren, thanks for the support.

zhiren

oops, continue your sharing, please

hzuttiger

Hi, OopsWrongPlace, you like question, here you got one: how can you have so much time to enjoy a native Chinese BBS since you are surrounded by all whites?
I am overseas Chinese and working in HZ, I really enjoy the life surrounded by all Chinese here. I can data them out if I want, have you ever tried it in your town?

OopsWrongPlace

hzuttiger, I noticed you were new here. Welcome on board. Well, i am pretty new too as you might have already noticed.  You are right that I spent much time coming here. Actually I have spent significant time writing emails to my friends, both in US and China, almost everyday in the last several years.
I am so glad that you are an overseas Chinese and working in HZ. Can I ask what business you are in. Are you a native HZ? I am sure you are enjoying your life in HZ. I went back to HZ a few times in the past years. I knew how enjoyable the life was. If I have a good opportunity, i would like to go back and live there forever. Maybe next time we can meet in HZ and have a good cup of Long Jing tea at Hu Ban Ju.

zhiren

will you share a bit your experience with us in the process of learning english.  i posted a new bbs regarding this.  if you can teach us yours, i believe it will help many!

花心客

LA, i like the rose parade there, a much interesting event compared with new years eve celebration at time square.

wildchyld

whats the average American s view of china?? do we chinese have a good reputition???whats the life like of we chinese
student there?

[ Last edited by zhiren on 2004-9-7 at 23:02 ]

OopsWrongPlace

引用:

引用 花心客 在9/6/2004 06:30 PM:发表的
LA, i like the rose parade there, a much interesting event compared with new years eve celebration at time square.

花心客, you have been both rose parade time square new year's eve? I ve never been New York time square's new year eve celebration.  Last summer, I went to New York and lived on the 7th ave, just by the Time Sqaure. Every night, I went out to experience New York's nights. To my surprise, millions of people were packed around the Time Square everyday ( I was told it only happened during summers). Even by the midnight, few people left the square. Before, I thought Shanghai's Nanjing Road East was the most crowded place. But after last summer, i realized there was at least one place outside China having more people than SH's Nanjing Road.
Where are you now?


For those who have never heard of Rose Parade, I would like to take a few lines talking about this.

Many of you probably have known New York City Time Square's New Year's Eve celebration. In Los Angeles, there is also a well-known celebration for the New Year. But it is on the New Year's Day. It is called Rose Parade. Like the ones we saw in on Oct 1 in BJ, the parade consists of marching bands and motorized floats. The Rose Parade's elaborate floats have come a long way since the Tournament's early days. Although a few floats are still built by volunteers from their sponsoring communities, most are built by professional float building companies and take nearly a year to construct. I am attaching some pictures below.

The history of the parade went back to 1890, started in Pasadena, the oldest town in Great Los Angeles area. A hundred years ago, the Pasadena residents thought that in winter, New York was buried in snow, but in southern California, there were still plenty of sunshine and roses. So they started this parade to celebrate the new years. Since then, it has been catching more and more attention from the rest of US and the whole world.  The event was live-broadcasted in all major US TV channels, as well as in nearly 30 countries every year in the past several years.  Once a friend in BJ told me that she saw the parade on the TV in Beijing too.

Every year, hundreds of thousands of people came to Pasadena to watch the parade.  Many people came a few days before the New Year's Day and tried to occupy good spots on the two sides of Colorado Blvd, the main street where the parade past through. So even for Los Angeles residents, they had to either spend the whole night waiting by the street, or got up at 2:00 in the early morning if they wanted to find parking spaces and nice places to sit and watch the parade.

花心客

Yeah, I have watched the rose parade. I like it because I am huaxin .. seeing beautiful young ladies walking in the sunshine or posing on floats decorated with millions of roses, the feeling was simply good. Luck enough that I had friends lived in the parade area, so that I did not need to get up early or stay in the street over night.

Although I once lived close to NY city and have been to the time square many times, I never went there on new year’s eve.  Because after I watched the whole event broadcasted on tv, I lost my interest in it. The only exciting moment is when the new year’s eve ball falling from a flagpole. But the excitement usually lasts only for minutes. For these few minutes, thousands of people wait in chill weather for many many hours without many activities to get involved.